Вид для печати
Я в авиационной технике просто любитель.На Испанском форуме, "рафаль" изрядно поливается со всех сторон-припустили его на уровень как самый неудачный самолёт современности,хотелось бы знать мнение специалистов по этому поводу.Всё таки всё познаётся в сравнении, на сколько хороши оба МФИ истребителя, и кто из них лучше где когда и в каких аспектах.
О-о-о! Хорошая тема, логическое продолжение моей старенькой!
- Ознакомьтесь на всякий случай:Цитата:
Сообщение от жлобъ
http://forum.airforce.ru/viewtopic.php?t=689&start=0
А Рафаль, естественно, лучше Еврофайтера.
I guess operationals Rafales pictures are needed for this topic! :D
Во, фоты классные!
Да я перечитал эту тему ещё раньше, у вас там война больше между собой идёт :lol: .Просто хотелось данную тему выделить отдельно от "МиГ", "Су" и т.дЦитата:
Сообщение от juky-puky
Я просто сам не могу встрявать в технические вопросы(не имею надлежащего образования), мне он тоже казался лучшим, на уровне того что я читал.
http://www.militar.org.ua/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7584
Вот это форум о котором я говорил,ну кто не понаимет испанского хотябы может увидеть разницу в опросе кто лзучший по ихнему мнению.
Щас!
По фотографиям и инфе эксперты прикинут какой самолетик лучший....
Это надо спросить кто летал хоть на этих моделях и может сравнить... Тем более, как там выразились "худший самолет современности"..Ну..ну....
Играйтесь:
EF-2000 vs. Rafale B/C/M
A. Empty weight:
EF-2K: 11,150 kg
Rafale B: 9,670 kg
Rafale C: 9,400 kg
Rafale M: 9,900 kg
B. Internal Fuel:
EF-2K: 4,996 kg + CFT
Rafale B: 4,240 kg + CFT
Rafale C: 4,500 kg + CFT
Rafale M: 4,500 kg + CFT
C. Wing Surface Area:
EF-2K: 50.00 m2
Rafale B/C/M: 45.70 m2
D. Comparison of air-combat weight, T/W ratio, and wing-load among these fighters at the "fair" condition (with the same kind and the amount of AAM weapons + roughly equal combat radius):
EF-2000: 4,996 kg internal fuel + AIM-120*4 + ASRAAM*2
RAFALE B/C/M: 4,500 /4,240 kg internal fuel + MICA EM*4 + MICA IR*2
E. Air-combat weight:
EF-2K: 17,150 kg
Rafale B: 14,900 kg
Rafale C: 14,800 kg
Rafale M: 15,300 kg
F. Wing-load (E/C):
EF-2K: 343.0 kg/m2
Rafale B: 326.0 kg/m2
Rafale C: 323.9 kg/m2
Rafale M: 334.8 kg/m2
G. T/W ratio, sea-level(AB thrust / Maximal military thrust):
EF-2K: 1.071 / 0.714 (EJ200, peace time, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2)
EF-2K: 1.130 / 0.821 (EJ200, the war time, 21,370 Ib / 15,525 Ib *2)
EF-2K: 1.178 / 0.821 (EJ200, small revision, 22,275 Ib / 15,525 Ib *2)
EF-2K: 1.222 / 0.857 (EJ230, post-2010 ?, 23,100 Ib / 16,200 Ib *2)
EF-2K: 1.400 ~ 1.428 / 0.926 (EJ270, post-2015 ?, 27,000 Ib / 17,500 Ib *2)
RAFA B: 1.027 / 0.685 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2)
RAFA B: 1.209 / 0.806 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2)
RAFA C: 1.038 / 0.692 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2)
RAFA C: 1.222 / 0.815 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2)
RAFA M: 1.000 / 0.667 (M88-2, nowadays, 16,870 Ib / 11,245 Ib *2)
RAFA M: 1.177 / 0.785 (M88-3, post-2010, 20,250 Ib / 13,500 Ib *2)
Добавка:
CAPTOR EF-2000 Tranche 1 and 2
For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 12 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 22 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 70 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 124 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 185 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 220 km+
RBE-2 PESA Rafale F1/F2/F3
For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 7~9 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 13~15 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 41~49 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 73~87 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 110~130 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 130~154 km+
CAESAR AESA EF-2000 Tranche 3, post-2015 with 1,500 T/Rs
For RCS 0.0001 m2 class target: 18~21 km+
For RCS 0.001 m2 class target: 32~38 km+
For RCS 0.1 m2 class target: 104~122 km+
For RCS 1.0 m2 class target: 185~216 km+
For RCS 5.0 m2 class target: 278~324 km+
For RCS 10.0 m2 class target: 330~385 km+
И еще:
EF-2000 v.s RAFALE C
1. Dimensions:
# Fighter: EF-2000 / Rafale C
A. Length: 15.96 m / 15.27 m
B. Span: 10.95 m / 10.80 m
C. Height: 5.28 m / 5.34 m
D. Wing area: 50.00 m2 / 45.70 m2
2. Weights:
# Fighter: EF-2000 / Rafale C
A. Empty weight: 10,995~11,150 kg / 9,400~9,850 kg (*1)
B. Internal fuel: 4,996 kg / 4,700 kg (*2)
C. Max. ext. fuel: 4,000 liters / 9,375 liters
D. Max. ext. load: 7500~8,000 kg+ / 9,500 kg+ (*3)
E. Max. take-off weight: 23,500 kg / 24,500 kg (*4)
*1: EF-2000 is about 11~19% heavier than Rafale C.
*2: EF-2000's fuel is also about 6% more than Rafale C's.
*3: Rafale C's Max. ext. load can be 19~27% more than EF-2000's.
*4: Dassault may increase the MTOW of Rafale to 27,200 kg-class after 2010.
3. Flight Performance:
# Fighter: EF-2000 / Rafale C
A. Max. speed, high level: 2.0 Mach+ / 1.8 Mach+ (*5)
B. Max. speed, low level: 1.15 Mach / 750 kts
C. Operating altitude: 65,000 fts / 55,000 fts+
F. Climb rate, sea level: > 315 m/sec / > 305 m/sec
G. Normal G-limit: -3.0~+9.0G / -3.2~+9.0 G
H. Max. upper G-limit: +12.0~+15.0 G / 11.0 G+
I. Normal FCS AoA limit: 33 degrees / 32 degrees (*6)
J. Wing-load: 297.0~300.0 kg/m2 / 281.2~291.0 kg/m2 (*7)
K. T/W ratio for air combat, sea level: 1.22~1.24 / 1.15~1.19 with A/B ( *8 )
L. T/W ratio for air combat, sea level: 0.81~0.83 / 0.77~0.79 with max. mil. (*9)
*5: The normal upper limit of Rafale's FCS for speed is 1.8 Mach.
*6: Once cancelling the normal restriction of FBWs, Rafale's AoA could reach more than 100 degrees. As for EF-2000, I've only heard the information that EF-2000 had performed the maneuver with the AoA > or = 40 degrees during the flight test.
*7 and *8: EJ-200 already has had the potential to increase 5.5~10% more A/B thrust, and 15% more Max. A/B thrust during the war time, while M88-2 hasn't declared such a capability up to now. Therefore, the difference of T/W ratio between EF-2000 and Rafale C may become much more significant during the war time.
*7~*9: The fighter's weight for air combat = empty weight + 50% internal fuel + MRAAM*6 + SRAAM*2 + pilot and gun shells.
4. Ferry range:
# Fighter: EF-2000 / Rafale C
A. Ferry range: 2,600 km / > 2,100 km (*10)
B. Ferry range: 3,700 km / 3,704 km+ (*11) (*12)
*10: clean fighter with internal fuel only.
*11: Ferry range of EF-2000 with two tanks --> 3,700 km
*12: Ferry range of Rafale C with four tank (6,600 L) + MICA*8 --> 3,704 km
5. Combat radius:
# EF-2000
A. Strike:650km (4 BVRAAM, 2WVRAAM, and 7,000Ib bombs, lo-lo-lo)
B. Strike: 1390Km (Basic loading for air-combat + LGB*3 + ARM*2 + pod*1, hi-lo-hi)
C. Air-combat: 750 nm (1389 km)
D. Air-combat: 100 nm (185 km), 3hrs CAP
E. Combat endurance: 2 h 15 min with six AAMs and external tanks, 280 km from the carrier.
# Rafale C:
A. 1,100 km with three tanks (4,300 L), four MICA AAMs, and twelve 1,000 Ib bombs.
B. 1,480 km with three tanks (6,000 L), four MICA AAMs, and four 500 Ib GBU-12 LGBs
C. 1,830 km with two CFTs (2,300 L), three tanks (5,700 L), two SCALP-EG and two MICA AAMs.
D. CAP: More than 2 hours (Rafale M with six AAMs and three 1,250L tanks, 185 km away from the carrier)
6. Others:
# Fighter: EF-2000 / Rafale C
A. Frontal RCS: 0.1~0.5 m2 / 0.1 to 0.3 m2 (*13)
B. Pylonst: 13 and 3 / 14 and 5, all and wet (*14)
C. Prices: 154 million USDs / 148.5 million USDs (*15)
D. Prices: 80.1 million USDs / 69.5 million USDs (*16)
E. Maintenance: 8 / 7 Man-hours per flight hour.
*13: Dassault declared the frontal RCS of Rafale is 1/10 of Mirage-2000 in 1998~1999.
*14: Wet pylon means the pylon that can carry and use the tank.
*15: The cost of the whole plan / the number of procured fighters.
*16: Fly-away costs of EF-2000 Tranch II for Austria AF during 2007~2009 and Rafale F3 for French governement during 2008~2012.
7. Engine:
Engine: EJ-200 turbofans / M88-2 turbofans
Weight: 990~1,035 kg / 897 kg
Thrust: 20,250~21,370 Ib / 16,840~17,000 Ib (A/B) (*17)
Thrust: 13,500~15,525 Ib / 11,240~11,250 Ib (Max. Mil.)
T/W ratio: 8.9~9.8 : 1 / 8.5~8.6 : 1
# Compression ratio: 26 : 1 / 24.5 : 1
SFC: 1.66~1.73 / 1.80 (A/B)
SFC: 0.74~0.81 / 0.80 (A/B)
*17: Eurojet declared that with minor modification, the maximal A/B thrust of EJ-200 could reach 22,275 Ib class theoretically.
8. Radar:
Radar: CAPTOR radar / RBE-2 PESA radar
Detective range: 185 km+ / 130~148 km ( *18 )
Search angle: +/-70 degrees / +/-60 degrees (Horizontal)
Targets of TWS: 20 targets+ / 40 targets
Targets of engagment: 6~8 targets / 8 targets
*18: EADS and the UK pilot have declared or hinted that CAPTOR radar could "track" the MIG-29 (RCS = 5m2 class) at the distance of more than 161~185 km away, while Frenchman declared that RBE-2 has the similar detective range as RDY.
9. IRST:
IRST: PIRATE IRST / FSO IRST + TV + Laser range-finder
Detective range: 148 km+ / 130~148 km (Maximal range)
Search angle: +/-90 degs / +/-90 degs (IIR), +/-60 degs (TV)
Multi-targets of tracking: 200 targets / Unknown
Effective range for image identification : unknown / 55 km
Effective range for range measuring : - / 30~40 km (*19)
*19: FSO system has the laser range-finder for range measuring, while PIRATE IRST doesn't have it.
Гость1, благодарю за ценную информацию! А вот подобной полноты инфа, но по вертолётам, у вас есть? Можно в личку, или на почту..
Нет, к сожалению.Цитата:
Сообщение от An-Z