Red Stars – Black Cross’s Ally over Poland. Soviet Aviation over East Part of Poland

[mirekw]

Hi
the problem of losses done by own A/A unit during IX 1939 is quite serious.
Not only PZL.23 but other Polish planes had been hit by own fire. There was such psychosy of fear. Any plane over us - the enemy. Second quiet low knowledge about shapes of own enemy planes.
German flak did not have many chanches to open fire to enemy planes. There were not so many air attack done by Polish planes on enemy positions. Most dangerous was Me 109s and Me 110, which shot down about 100 Polish planes in 17 days.

If we talking about Soviet side in IX 1939, and common soldiers, they did shot to anythig, which they had seen. There were several cases of shot down own planes (mostly U-2) by A/A fire. It was serious. So since 25 IX 1939 it was given for RKKA soldiers a special order to forbide them to open A/A fire to any kind of plane.
In my book I have written about a few cases of shoting by Soviet A/A fire own planes (a few VVS RKKA airmen were killed or wounded). The same was with Polish planes which were shot down by such A/A fire.

Regrads
mw

The case of shoting own plane it is not any kind of national habit but rather simple the common lack of knowledge about onw Plane among Polish and Soviet soldiers plus big fear/stress of war.

[Nik Primopye]

.. Any plane over us - the enemy. . big fear/stress of war.

... There was such psychosy of fear.Any plane over us - the enemy....
...big fear/stress of war.
Думаю, это нормальная реакция человека в ненормальных условиях.
Даже хорошее знание материальной части в такой ситуации не помогает.

Тот же "big fear/stress of war" у американцев, 7 декабря 1941:

- "Ведущий знал о повышенной боевой готовности. Он точно договорился по радио с офицером на контрольной башне о порядке посадки. Было приказано включить бортовые огни и выдерживать установленное направление.
Всем кораблям и зенитным батареям строжайшим образом приказали не открывать огня: самолеты свои. Но стоило им появиться в зоне Пёрл-Харбора, как линкор «Пенсильвания», подав пример бдительности, ощетинился огнем. В одно мгновение застреляло все, что могло стрелять. Пять самолетов были тут же сбиты, три летчика успели выпрыгнуть с парашютами из горящих машин, одного из них изрешетили из пулемета, пока он плыл в гавани. Благополучно приземлился лишь один самолет..."
(Яковлев Н.Н. Пёрл-Харбор, 7 декабря 1941 года. Быль и небыль. — М.: Политиздат, 1988.)

Дело происходило вечером 07.12.41, через 12 часов после удара по гавани.

Чистая психология. Человек смотрит, но видит не то, что есть, а то, что его пугает. Примерно как мой друг Холостяк.(#22)

С уважением,
Ник

[mirekw]

Hi
Sorry but I do not have online contact to the internet. I can answer with a few day delay in discution.

There are information that Luftwaffe unit had got an information from own high staff about corssing Polish border by RKKA on 16 IX 1939 (one day before 17 IX). They also had got information about the line, which they did not let to came accross. Luftwaffe did not take care much about this and flown deep into this territory on 17 IX 39.

Russian since 1 IX 39 had began support for example Luftwaffe's crews by sending radio signal for better air navigation. Radiostation Minsk had worked since 1 IX 39 2 houres longer then before.

I do not hear, read, had found any case of Russian air attack done on German land unit. There are a few cases (near Lvov one well know case) of exchange fire between German and Soviet land forces (with KIA and WIA). Any kind of such incudnet was very fast explained.

There were not such incident in the air.
In one case Me 109s and I-16 had met together in the air - and nothing had happend. I do not hear, find any information about air fighting between Luftwaffe and VVS RKKA in IX 39 too.

There are one incident, when one German He 111 bomber of KG 27 had landed in Russia on 13 IX with 50% of battle damage inflicted by Polish a/a. This plane was repaired in a few days. So the German crew had returned to the Germany on 27 or 28 IX 1939. During returned flight German bomber was escorted by Russian fighters to the Soviet borders.
Of course for some of Russian taking part in this discution this could be not counted as a Ally action, but maybe as a humanitary act of Russian friendships towards German.
5 Polish air crews, which had landed before 17 IX in Russia were arested and some of them were later killed in Katyń in 1940. Some of them hade leaved Russia in 1942. This is other story.


In the first days of Russian agression on Poland VVS units had done bomb attack mostly near the border, not so far from the first line of Russian land forces. German were much more futher (they were waiting for Russian, did not crossing "own part" of Poland). So the information about air attacking German units by VVS are nice fiction.

There were also introduced earlier special visual signals for land forces to make better distinction among German, Polish (enemy) and Russian forces from the air.
Most of Russian air attack were done against Polish land units (KOP + others), which were reatrating to the west and south.

ряде мест 17-18 сентября 1939 г., несмотря на предпринятые немцами меры предосторожности, их части все же попали под атаки советских летчиков. Досталось, в частности, облаченным в коричневую форму подразделениям Немецкого трудового фронта

If it above was true, could be nice to hear/know the name of German land unit and Russian one. I do not hear/read from many sources about any kid of such incidnet.

There were of course a few incident when "Polish planes" with red stars had bombed Soviet land forces inflicting personal (killed and wounded) and material losses (destroyed cars).

Regards
mw

[mirekw]

Better late then never, :-)

Last days, some pages taken from my book are at last hanged on Jacek Jackiewcz web side:

http://www.kecay.info/

There are some pages of text, and a few photos, color drawings. You may see/read them:

http://www.kecay.com/mirek.htm

Regards,

Mirek Wawrzyński

[mirekw]

The first link is not working so the good one is:

http://kagero.pl/index.php?option=co...2009&Itemid=29

Regrads,
M. Wawrzyński